Host: When we look at the Catholic church and its decline in recent years—less young people going, less people signing up for a religious life, and since, you could say the 60s…
Jordan Peterson: Well, it’s all guitar and hippies. Who the hell cares?
Host: (laughing)… Since Vatican II, let’s say the 60s, the church has been aiming to be more relevant, more welcoming, so it’s, then what’s the problem?
Jordan Peterson: Yeah, that’s not working. It’s shallow obviously. Shallow and contemptable. You know, it’s supposed to be an invitation to the great adventure of life. what’s the great adventure of life? Pick up your cross and follow me. Like, that’s a hell of an invitation, but that’s the invitation and the church lost faith in that.
We have to be relevant. Well, what’s more relevant than that? As soon as you say that you need to be more relevant than that—what you’re doing, technically, is putting something else above that. Well, that’s not going to work not if the original proposition was correct. And obviously the original proposition is correct.
You might say, well, why obviously? Okay. Well, Christ faced and triumphed over death and hell, and you might say, well, why is that relevant? And the answer is—cause that’s what you have to do. Right. And everyone—you’re stuck with it.
Host: So is the Catholic church not challenging people enough?
Jordan Peterson: Definitely not. Not enough. Not by any stretch of the imagination. The gateway to Paradise is barred by the cherubs who have swords that flame and turn every which way. Well, what does that mean? It means it’s hard to get into the club, man. Anything that isn’t worthy gets cut and burned away. Well, of course, that’s hell—especially if you resist it. Really. And there’s no sugar coating that and that isn’t what people want anyways.
Young people want an adventure. Why the hell do you think they’re so concerned with saving the planet, which Pope Francis seems to be on about constantly when you should be saving souls. That’s how you save the planet, not by worshiping Gaia.
Host: Do you think Pope Francis puts the emphasis in the wrong places sometimes?
Jordan Peterson: Well, I gave you that example. I don’t see for the life of me what the Catholic Church has to do with climate crisis. Just the formulation is wrong. The priority is wrong. You save the world one person at a time. It lacks faith in its own mission.